....
The approach to writing music, has the changed much over the years?
FW: “No it actually hasn’t. Everybody brings in their own songs and present them to the band. Not much banging out tunes together. We did jam over course and certainly in the old days all of us sitting in a room together and jam.”
SW: “And sometimes song ideas come out of that.”
FW: “I don’t think a real song ever did come out of those jams though, nothing that really turned into a song. It‘s always fun to do but it just doesn’t work for us. There is not enough structure there I think.”
SW: ““Wind up doll day wind” is probably the one song that all three HTM writers, me, Frank and Kit sat down together and tried to put some parts together but I think we all had existing parts that were then rewritten to fit together.“
FW: “I think my input on that was just the words and the music went through the same creative process as usual.”
SW: “I think I had the heavy guitar part and the chorus and Kit had all the intro music. But that was our only real co-written song I think. Every other time it was just me, Frank or who else come up with something.”
If you could choose one song as the prime example of the Happy The Man sound which one would it be?
FW: “Phew that’s a tough one.”
SW: “Wow that is a great question!!“
FW: “If that has to be one song it has to be one that has a whole bunch of changes in it.”
SW: “Hmm… maybe “Wind up doll day wind” although that is a vocal tune and the majority of HTM’s music is instrumental so it wouldn’t be that representative of us.”
FW: “Labyrinth” is probably really representative since it has so many changes. But then again, maybe not.”
SW: “This is a tough question because HTM has such distinctive different writers. Dave has stepped into the footprints of Kit and even goes beyond that because he manages to write totally different stuff like “Contemporary insanity”, which is one of Dave’s tunes. But as far as anyone tune, man, I would not know how to answer that.”
FW: “You would probably end up getting a different answer from each of us. My favorite all time HTM song that we ever did is “New York dream’s suite”. I really like that song.”
SW: “That’s the one song we really get a lot of requests to work up for live performance. We still do eight of the old tunes live and NYDS is sure one we would consider to get into shape if we would decide to add another one. But returning to the subject when I would consider one from the new album I would think of “Il quinto mare” or “Contemporary insanity”. And if I would like someone to hear just this one song to get an idea of HTM it would be that last one because it is short and sweet and in your face.”
FW: “That’s why it is the first track on the album.”
SW: “Yes, similar just like “Service with a smile” opened up “Crafty Hands”. Right off the bat you will get wowed by it. This is powerful.”
Where did that song come from since it was co-written with the keyboard player from The Cars?
SW: “Yes, Greg Hawkes and Ron Riddle went to school together or something like that. They went to some music school together somewhere in Florida. That is always a fun little tidbit of info that someone from The Cars co-wrote that song.”
FW: “It did sound very different the original tune.”
SW: “Yeah, we definitely put it through the HTM ringer to get it where it ended up.”
And in the end I think it became almost your signature tune.
SW: “In a lot of ways it did. We still open our shows with it because it is such a great set-opener.”
I still remember the NEARfest 2000 performance. The curtains opening up and the first notes you would here were from this song. Note perfect and splendid sound. That was such an awesome experience.
FW: “That was, except for one warm-up gig, the first time we played it.”
What was so weird about that NEARfest performance was that I never have been to gig were a band got a standing ovation before actually having played a note.
SW: “Oh yeah, that was such a rush and what a lovely show.”
FW: “I would love to do that again.”
SW: “We hope to go back there again. They just started this year to having bands back invited.”
FW: “We would love to play there again and let them record us and release it.”
Wasn’t the 2000 show recorded?
SW: “Well, it wasn’t supposed to be recorded but apparently it was and they wanted to release it. But we really didn’t want a lot of it to be released because we felt there were a lot mistakes on the performance.”
FW: “Well, hey.. it is okay for me to release it…. hahaha…”
[The sense creeps in that we have reached a touchy subject within HTM.]
Aah... controversy!!!
FW: “Let’s not go there!! [laughs] I say, release. I say bring your tape-recorders and record everything and spread it.”
SW: “We are basically on the same page on that subject. We do need the exposure and don’t have to be so finicky about the quality of the performance. If it were up to Frank and me the NEARfest recording would be released. But hopefully we can come back someday to that stage and record the band with Joe because it is definitely more exciting for us to play with him. I don’t really care what is being released actually because it is definitely going to be better then the Happy The Man live album that was released in the 80s.”
FW: “Oh God, some of that early stuff like “Beginnings” is scary.
SW: Horrendous stuff.”
It is still a nice document of the development of the band.
FW: “From an archival point of view it is interesting but we do crinch when we hear it; where did that come from.”
So what is your opinion on the “Deaths Crown” release?
SW: “That is a bit different compared to the other older stuff that got out through the years. That is one we all really like despite its flaws. Production wise it is not up to standard. But it could be possible to work up the beginning of that eventually leads into “Open book” and work that up as well. Nice idea, but we will see.”
FW: “It would be great to redo it somehow but we still have all of this new stuff.”
SW: “Yes that is the thing. We have so much new stuff and we are sure people are gonna love the next record.”
Any timeframe on the arrival of the successor to “The Muse Awakens”? Not putting any pressure on you guys J
FW: [laughs]
SW: “We never give a timeframe [laughs]. We learned not to do that over the years. InsideOut has made it clear that they definitely want to do another record with us so we know it will eventually happen. But we don’t want to totally give up on “The Muse Awakens” yet. We still got a bit more mileage to get out of it. And with the eight old tunes we feel that we have this great set which deserves to be heard by more people. A lot of fans came up to us at our infrequent shows saying: ‘We never dreamed of ever hearing those tunes live!’.”
How is playing with this line-up of the band compared to the early years?
SW: “Oh, it is a lot more relaxed to do it now then in the old days. Then we were young and excited and hoping to make it big with this music. Also a lot more pressure back then. Now we just want to have more fun while playing. We have fans that are coming especially to see us.”
FW: “Oh yeah, we joke a lot on stage now, like talking to the audience and it doesn’t feel contrived at all. In the old days we thought we have to come up with what we are going to say and how we are going to introduce songs properly etc. Now we are just hanging out, playing and having fun.”
Ken Scott produced both of your Arista albums. He seems to have been a crucial factor in the Happy The Man sound.
FW: “Absolutely, he is incredible.”
SW: “On “Caroussel” he even added to the arrangement. He took the opening section of that song and looped it and shaped the arrangement into its definitive form. Overall and sound wise he put stamp on us.”
FW: “He is a master.”
How important is production for the sound of HTM?
SW: “Very important. As perfectionist as we are with the songs and the arrangements it is just as important to sonically reproduce that to perfection. And not to demean the old Ken Scott albums but the one thing lacking on those records was some of the punch the band has live. And when you the band live that older music comes alive a lot more to me. When you see those old songs performed live there is just this whole new energy and power behind it that the records could not possibly have captured. That is something that is missing from those albums.”
In 1979 HTM broke up. Was that mainly because Arista dropped you?
FW: “That and Kit going with Camel.”
SW: “We were all a bit cynical and jaded about the record business at that time. But for us the timing wasn’t that great for Kit to join Camel because we had decided to put out our third album by ourselves, to continue. So we were a bit disappointed by his decision. And since we didn’t know Dave Rosenthal and we sure didn’t know anyone that was on the same level that Kit was on we had to call it a day.”
In hindsight, haven’t you regretted your decision to not take the position of Peter Gabriel’s band on his first solo-tour?
SW: “Initially he wanted to have HTM in 1976, when he left Genesis. He had like five bands, two or three in the US and two or three in the UK that he auditioned and he saved us for last. And a lot of people on the old Genesis road crew were friends of ours and especially Rick Kennell. We however had heard all of these horror stories where he had got into these auditions and left after 10 or 15 minutes just frustrated. But he ended up spending a good 7 or 8 hours with us and he really liked us. He wanted us to be his band and we pretty much told him that we would do anything to be your band but, in the same breath, we have Arista finally offering us a record deal. So, don’t make us give up something we worked six or seven years on and we finally have an opportunity to signing to a major label. But we said we still want to do your project and give it priority. He then kicked it around for a good couple of weeks and then decided he wanted us exclusively. So we decided not go with him.
But when HTM broke up in 1979 he caught wind of it and his management got in touch with me to ask me to start working with him on the third Peter Gabriel album. Had I have been a bit more business savvy at that point in my life I wouldn’t have passed on it. But I was still quite the ‘artiste’ and I was just getting into singing and I really wanted to develop that. And Rick Kennell and I had an opportunity to form a new band called Vision and so I went that route.”
FW: “Boy oh boy oh boy….”
SW: “I was stupid I know. So yeah I was to have any regrets it would probably be that one, that I didn’t take advantage of that situation.”
FW: “But hey, that’s ok, you still got me, man…” [gives him a small, joking hug]
SW: “Everything works out and you can’t have regrets in your life. I am a firm believer in fate and destiny and everything happening for its reason. I figure I had more lessons to learn on my own. If I would have been a sideman for someone he sure would have been the guy but in my heart I simply didn’t want to go that route. “
FW: “Hmm… [chuckles again] Sorry…”
So besides a new HTM album, touring plans and a DVD what can we expect in the future from HTM?
SW: “Those things are surely on the top of the list especially getting to Europe and play. I would say that one is the no. 1 priority, to get over there as soon as possible and expose some of this music to the European audience. Next up is the get the follow-up to “The Muse Awakens” done.
And then there is the stuff that Frank and I are doing under the PGA / Spirit Noise or whatever name it will eventually get.”
FW: “There is plenty of material to keep us busy and to go around with.“
SW: ‘And I am making my living now these days as an acoustic singer/songwriter, crooner guy. I am playing cover music; I am not singing my own songs. But I discovered four or five years ago that I could actually earn a living as a musician, going out singing and playing acoustic guitar. My fiancée sings with me on a lot of gigs too, so we have a solo and duo act. But we purposely chose really eclectic stuff. I am not singing “Brown eyed girl” or “Marguarita ville” but I do old Genesis stuff, old Jethro Tull, ELP, a ton of Beatles. So from the get go I just picked a lot of eclectic stuff and luckily for me it has worked because a lot of the rooms are tired of the guys coming in and singing all those old chestnuts. We are having fun with it, earning our living as a crooner, as a troubadour.”
FW: ‘And I am trying to get to grips with the engineering part of music.”
SW: “Oh, he is doing a great job at it and is growing in leaps and bounds on this gear over the past couple of years.”
FW: “I am building a bigger house now with a new studio and a live-room. I just started bulldozing yesterday so I will be busy at that for the next seven or eight months. Once that is done I can move in. Stan’s got the production ears going so hopefully we will do something together, finding some new people and help them get recorded.”
SW: “We have talked about forming our own little independent label, taking artsy folks and helping develop them since the major labels aren’t doing any of that anymore.”
FW: “But I probably will keep building houses like I use to do, on the side.”
SW: “He has built a lot of houses. Over 500 houses has this man built and he is good at it.”
FW: “I gotta stop doing so much of the physical part and do just the paperwork and hire a subcontractor to do the heavy stuff. The next one is for myself and I have to do a lot of the physical parts myself, hopefully I will make it through that.”
SW: “It will surely be more satisfying though…”
FW: “Ask me again next January when I have casts on my legs… “I can’t play anymore”..” [laughs]
Dutch translation on www.progwereld.org
The approach to writing music, has the changed much over the years?
FW: “No it actually hasn’t. Everybody brings in their own songs and present them to the band. Not much banging out tunes together. We did jam over course and certainly in the old days all of us sitting in a room together and jam.”
SW: “And sometimes song ideas come out of that.”
FW: “I don’t think a real song ever did come out of those jams though, nothing that really turned into a song. It‘s always fun to do but it just doesn’t work for us. There is not enough structure there I think.”
SW: ““Wind up doll day wind” is probably the one song that all three HTM writers, me, Frank and Kit sat down together and tried to put some parts together but I think we all had existing parts that were then rewritten to fit together.“
FW: “I think my input on that was just the words and the music went through the same creative process as usual.”
SW: “I think I had the heavy guitar part and the chorus and Kit had all the intro music. But that was our only real co-written song I think. Every other time it was just me, Frank or who else come up with something.”
If you could choose one song as the prime example of the Happy The Man sound which one would it be?
FW: “Phew that’s a tough one.”
SW: “Wow that is a great question!!“
FW: “If that has to be one song it has to be one that has a whole bunch of changes in it.”
SW: “Hmm… maybe “Wind up doll day wind” although that is a vocal tune and the majority of HTM’s music is instrumental so it wouldn’t be that representative of us.”
FW: “Labyrinth” is probably really representative since it has so many changes. But then again, maybe not.”
SW: “This is a tough question because HTM has such distinctive different writers. Dave has stepped into the footprints of Kit and even goes beyond that because he manages to write totally different stuff like “Contemporary insanity”, which is one of Dave’s tunes. But as far as anyone tune, man, I would not know how to answer that.”
FW: “You would probably end up getting a different answer from each of us. My favorite all time HTM song that we ever did is “New York dream’s suite”. I really like that song.”
SW: “That’s the one song we really get a lot of requests to work up for live performance. We still do eight of the old tunes live and NYDS is sure one we would consider to get into shape if we would decide to add another one. But returning to the subject when I would consider one from the new album I would think of “Il quinto mare” or “Contemporary insanity”. And if I would like someone to hear just this one song to get an idea of HTM it would be that last one because it is short and sweet and in your face.”
FW: “That’s why it is the first track on the album.”
SW: “Yes, similar just like “Service with a smile” opened up “Crafty Hands”. Right off the bat you will get wowed by it. This is powerful.”
Where did that song come from since it was co-written with the keyboard player from The Cars?
SW: “Yes, Greg Hawkes and Ron Riddle went to school together or something like that. They went to some music school together somewhere in Florida. That is always a fun little tidbit of info that someone from The Cars co-wrote that song.”
FW: “It did sound very different the original tune.”
SW: “Yeah, we definitely put it through the HTM ringer to get it where it ended up.”
And in the end I think it became almost your signature tune.
SW: “In a lot of ways it did. We still open our shows with it because it is such a great set-opener.”
I still remember the NEARfest 2000 performance. The curtains opening up and the first notes you would here were from this song. Note perfect and splendid sound. That was such an awesome experience.
FW: “That was, except for one warm-up gig, the first time we played it.”
What was so weird about that NEARfest performance was that I never have been to gig were a band got a standing ovation before actually having played a note.
SW: “Oh yeah, that was such a rush and what a lovely show.”
FW: “I would love to do that again.”
SW: “We hope to go back there again. They just started this year to having bands back invited.”
FW: “We would love to play there again and let them record us and release it.”
Wasn’t the 2000 show recorded?
SW: “Well, it wasn’t supposed to be recorded but apparently it was and they wanted to release it. But we really didn’t want a lot of it to be released because we felt there were a lot mistakes on the performance.”
FW: “Well, hey.. it is okay for me to release it…. hahaha…”
[The sense creeps in that we have reached a touchy subject within HTM.]
Aah... controversy!!!
FW: “Let’s not go there!! [laughs] I say, release. I say bring your tape-recorders and record everything and spread it.”
SW: “We are basically on the same page on that subject. We do need the exposure and don’t have to be so finicky about the quality of the performance. If it were up to Frank and me the NEARfest recording would be released. But hopefully we can come back someday to that stage and record the band with Joe because it is definitely more exciting for us to play with him. I don’t really care what is being released actually because it is definitely going to be better then the Happy The Man live album that was released in the 80s.”
FW: “Oh God, some of that early stuff like “Beginnings” is scary.
SW: Horrendous stuff.”
It is still a nice document of the development of the band.
FW: “From an archival point of view it is interesting but we do crinch when we hear it; where did that come from.”
So what is your opinion on the “Deaths Crown” release?
SW: “That is a bit different compared to the other older stuff that got out through the years. That is one we all really like despite its flaws. Production wise it is not up to standard. But it could be possible to work up the beginning of that eventually leads into “Open book” and work that up as well. Nice idea, but we will see.”
FW: “It would be great to redo it somehow but we still have all of this new stuff.”
SW: “Yes that is the thing. We have so much new stuff and we are sure people are gonna love the next record.”
Any timeframe on the arrival of the successor to “The Muse Awakens”? Not putting any pressure on you guys J
FW: [laughs]
SW: “We never give a timeframe [laughs]. We learned not to do that over the years. InsideOut has made it clear that they definitely want to do another record with us so we know it will eventually happen. But we don’t want to totally give up on “The Muse Awakens” yet. We still got a bit more mileage to get out of it. And with the eight old tunes we feel that we have this great set which deserves to be heard by more people. A lot of fans came up to us at our infrequent shows saying: ‘We never dreamed of ever hearing those tunes live!’.”
How is playing with this line-up of the band compared to the early years?
SW: “Oh, it is a lot more relaxed to do it now then in the old days. Then we were young and excited and hoping to make it big with this music. Also a lot more pressure back then. Now we just want to have more fun while playing. We have fans that are coming especially to see us.”
FW: “Oh yeah, we joke a lot on stage now, like talking to the audience and it doesn’t feel contrived at all. In the old days we thought we have to come up with what we are going to say and how we are going to introduce songs properly etc. Now we are just hanging out, playing and having fun.”
Ken Scott produced both of your Arista albums. He seems to have been a crucial factor in the Happy The Man sound.
FW: “Absolutely, he is incredible.”
SW: “On “Caroussel” he even added to the arrangement. He took the opening section of that song and looped it and shaped the arrangement into its definitive form. Overall and sound wise he put stamp on us.”
FW: “He is a master.”
How important is production for the sound of HTM?
SW: “Very important. As perfectionist as we are with the songs and the arrangements it is just as important to sonically reproduce that to perfection. And not to demean the old Ken Scott albums but the one thing lacking on those records was some of the punch the band has live. And when you the band live that older music comes alive a lot more to me. When you see those old songs performed live there is just this whole new energy and power behind it that the records could not possibly have captured. That is something that is missing from those albums.”
In 1979 HTM broke up. Was that mainly because Arista dropped you?
FW: “That and Kit going with Camel.”
SW: “We were all a bit cynical and jaded about the record business at that time. But for us the timing wasn’t that great for Kit to join Camel because we had decided to put out our third album by ourselves, to continue. So we were a bit disappointed by his decision. And since we didn’t know Dave Rosenthal and we sure didn’t know anyone that was on the same level that Kit was on we had to call it a day.”
In hindsight, haven’t you regretted your decision to not take the position of Peter Gabriel’s band on his first solo-tour?
SW: “Initially he wanted to have HTM in 1976, when he left Genesis. He had like five bands, two or three in the US and two or three in the UK that he auditioned and he saved us for last. And a lot of people on the old Genesis road crew were friends of ours and especially Rick Kennell. We however had heard all of these horror stories where he had got into these auditions and left after 10 or 15 minutes just frustrated. But he ended up spending a good 7 or 8 hours with us and he really liked us. He wanted us to be his band and we pretty much told him that we would do anything to be your band but, in the same breath, we have Arista finally offering us a record deal. So, don’t make us give up something we worked six or seven years on and we finally have an opportunity to signing to a major label. But we said we still want to do your project and give it priority. He then kicked it around for a good couple of weeks and then decided he wanted us exclusively. So we decided not go with him.
But when HTM broke up in 1979 he caught wind of it and his management got in touch with me to ask me to start working with him on the third Peter Gabriel album. Had I have been a bit more business savvy at that point in my life I wouldn’t have passed on it. But I was still quite the ‘artiste’ and I was just getting into singing and I really wanted to develop that. And Rick Kennell and I had an opportunity to form a new band called Vision and so I went that route.”
FW: “Boy oh boy oh boy….”
SW: “I was stupid I know. So yeah I was to have any regrets it would probably be that one, that I didn’t take advantage of that situation.”
FW: “But hey, that’s ok, you still got me, man…” [gives him a small, joking hug]
SW: “Everything works out and you can’t have regrets in your life. I am a firm believer in fate and destiny and everything happening for its reason. I figure I had more lessons to learn on my own. If I would have been a sideman for someone he sure would have been the guy but in my heart I simply didn’t want to go that route. “
FW: “Hmm… [chuckles again] Sorry…”
So besides a new HTM album, touring plans and a DVD what can we expect in the future from HTM?
SW: “Those things are surely on the top of the list especially getting to Europe and play. I would say that one is the no. 1 priority, to get over there as soon as possible and expose some of this music to the European audience. Next up is the get the follow-up to “The Muse Awakens” done.
And then there is the stuff that Frank and I are doing under the PGA / Spirit Noise or whatever name it will eventually get.”
FW: “There is plenty of material to keep us busy and to go around with.“
SW: ‘And I am making my living now these days as an acoustic singer/songwriter, crooner guy. I am playing cover music; I am not singing my own songs. But I discovered four or five years ago that I could actually earn a living as a musician, going out singing and playing acoustic guitar. My fiancée sings with me on a lot of gigs too, so we have a solo and duo act. But we purposely chose really eclectic stuff. I am not singing “Brown eyed girl” or “Marguarita ville” but I do old Genesis stuff, old Jethro Tull, ELP, a ton of Beatles. So from the get go I just picked a lot of eclectic stuff and luckily for me it has worked because a lot of the rooms are tired of the guys coming in and singing all those old chestnuts. We are having fun with it, earning our living as a crooner, as a troubadour.”
FW: ‘And I am trying to get to grips with the engineering part of music.”
SW: “Oh, he is doing a great job at it and is growing in leaps and bounds on this gear over the past couple of years.”
FW: “I am building a bigger house now with a new studio and a live-room. I just started bulldozing yesterday so I will be busy at that for the next seven or eight months. Once that is done I can move in. Stan’s got the production ears going so hopefully we will do something together, finding some new people and help them get recorded.”
SW: “We have talked about forming our own little independent label, taking artsy folks and helping develop them since the major labels aren’t doing any of that anymore.”
FW: “But I probably will keep building houses like I use to do, on the side.”
SW: “He has built a lot of houses. Over 500 houses has this man built and he is good at it.”
FW: “I gotta stop doing so much of the physical part and do just the paperwork and hire a subcontractor to do the heavy stuff. The next one is for myself and I have to do a lot of the physical parts myself, hopefully I will make it through that.”
SW: “It will surely be more satisfying though…”
FW: “Ask me again next January when I have casts on my legs… “I can’t play anymore”..” [laughs]
Dutch translation on www.progwereld.org